These are better than the nub cameroon 460 because of the quality of the maduro leaf used. it is perfect. The binder is thick and built to provide ample smoke. This is no longer considered a novelty size. Short fatties are here to stay. I have smoked all shapes and wrappers in the nub line, and the maduro 460 is the best. I would recommend the 460 size in all wrappers available as well.